Episode 189 – Why Battle Born Lithium Batteries Rule The RV Power World!

Eric Stark

Welcome back in staying on the road. Today we're going to have an interview with Tyler Burns from Battle Born Batteries. Nice update. And enjoying the RV life.

15 practical tips for selling an RV and getting top dollar and then a money saving tips. The four corner weigh in and then you're going to derate your speed and you're going to save some cash. What is a four corner weigh in.

That's going to be an interesting one. And then the next stop, Hot Springs and steam trail from Idaho, Montana to New Mexico. And an rv.

Not going to have one because we're going to do that Battle Born battery interview. So it's going to take up that time. Sorry about that.

Hey everybody, this is Eric Stark with the Smart RVer podcast, your trusted source for tips and insights into embrace the RV lifestyle without worries. So let's talk everything RV today. This is episode 189. So let's kind of dig right into this bad boy. Welcome back everybody.

A lot going on in the RV world all the time, a lot of things happening. It seems like the RV industry is still growing, growing, changing for the better. More products, more RVs, more sales, which is good.

We like to see that. I mean being on the inside the industry, we like to see the growth.

Owning an RV is a little bit different, but you don't want to see your manufacturer go out of business, start to falter. Then you know, the service gets even worse. Trying to find parts for it, those unique parts.

But everything's looking good right now as the economy is not looking so good. But it's hard to say. You get one report one way, one report the other way, who knows. But you know what, that's what's cool about this show.

We're just going to keep you in that RV lifestyle, keeping you going down that road without all the worries and headaches and frustrations of everything else happening around us. So there's always changes. Good badder or good changes, bad changes. And we just take them as they come.

But you know, to help you guys all the time, save some money. We definitely believe in that Mud Flap Fuel app. If you haven't checked checked it out, you can go to our website or the link in this description.

The Mud Flap Fuel app link will be there and when you sign up using our link, you get 10 bucks instantly when you sign up. So that's pretty cool. You save 10 bucks right off the get go and then you save money every time you fill up with fuel.

And this is diesel driven, it's not necessarily for gas engines. So if you have an RV truck, doesn't matter if it's got a diesel engine, it. You can use the app great option option for you to save some money.

So now let's get into enjoying the RV life. Well, let's back up for a second here. There's all these little things running around in my head.

I haven't really jumped into any conversations about anything unique stuff, starting building a list. But there's a couple of things that, you know, can save you some money or save some headaches when you're traveling.

You know, tying your cabinet door shut. A lot of RVs just have cabinet doors that open and close or even drawers that don't really latch. You know, some people use bungee cords.

Some people get pieces of aluminum wire. I've seen one with like a plastic coating on it, and they just bend it around the knobs and they just make like a hook.

They can just set it on there and it keeps them from opening or in a couple drawers or they have a long version of that and just hooks on the top. I'm sure you guys have figured out stuff like that. There's all these little hacks for stuff like extending a rain gutter.

If you're going to be permanent someplace or maybe at your house and you got water that drips, like right into some bad spot on the side of the rv. If you put a paper clip, or I'm not a paper clip, a clothespin up on that rain gutter, the water will drip off the end of the clothespin.

It extends it out. Some simple little things like that that help make RVing a little bit better in that case.

Like, I had an RV one time, and the water was dripping right into a unique spot on the rv. You know, it was just there. And you could know that over time it's gonna cause problems with the siding, things like that.

Did the pin extended out, Boom. Problem solved. Pretty simple. You know, it's got to remember when you're traveling to take that off or put it back on or do whichever, right?

All right, so there's a couple simple hacks. We're going to keep trying to come up with more of those. And of course, you know, we find those enjoying the RV life on our website.

We're always adding stuff like that. And speaking of enjoying the RV life, why don't we get into that right now and talk about selling your RV.

15 practical tips for selling an RV and getting top $1. Now, a lot of times we think about selling an rv, a car, a boat, A house, whatever we kind of like, I got this. I know what I need to do.

I need to get a for sale sign, slap it on the windshield, park it on a good corner and be done with this thing and sell it. In some ways that's true. You know, you want to have a good place where it can be seen, whether it's on the Internet or physically seen.

You also want to make sure that when people see it, they want to buy has curb appeal, just like a house. So there's 15 field tested practical tips we're going to talk about today.

So not only will you sell your RV faster, but you're going to probably get more money out of it with less hassle. And that's the thing, getting top dollar for it and selling it quickly.

You know, so often, you know, people come into our store, hey, what do you think my RV's worth? You know, we talked about it for a little bit. You know, I always say price it to sell.

When you get an offer that's close to the price that you can work with, take it.

Because if you decline that offer and that RV doesn't sell in six months, three months, whatever your timeframe is where you want to sell it, you're going to take lower or less money than what that initial offer was. It happens almost every time.

You know, it's a thousand bucks short of their what they wanted and then they end up taking 3 or 4,000 less by the time they get rid of it. So take that money, think about that. You know, if it's a reasonable offer, you might want to just take it.

Before you ever put your RV up on the market for sale. Let's talk about. There's three different ways to do this. You have the foundation, the presentation, and the show and sell. Show and sell.

You like that one? It's like that old song, show and tell. We don't want to go down that road.

So the foundation, have all your paperwork ready, find your documents for the rv, your title, if there's any lien on it, make sure how to release that lien. Are you going to pay the lien holder off before the person buys the rv?

Get all that dialed in and figured out if the person's money is going to help you pay off the rv. If you're still making payments on it, let them know up front you have a loan on it.

So we're going to have to go to the bank, we're going to do this, that and the other thing to make this happen. But it's always Better if you have the money where you can just pay that lien off or the loan and then it's yours. Then the paperwork's clean.

Much easier to do. But have it all ready to go. The documents you're going to need to transfer it to the person.

Have everything in a folder, a packet, ever how you want to do it. You're pricing it. Price with comparisons in the area, not your emotion. You know, it's your baby. Is it really worth the kind of money you think it is?

Realistically, it might not be. So price it with comparisons in the area. You can do that online, there's books for that.

And then if you have any upgrades, make sure they're listed and documented with receipts if possible.

If you don't have the receipts, have the prices what you did when you think you did it so they can kind of see that history and make your prices reasonable. Don't inflate them if you can't remember today's price versus 5 years ago is not a good comparison.

And little things that are cheap, you know, little latches bulbs, little water leaks, things like that, fix them before you ever put it on the market. Get the RV working in the best shape you can.

Unless there's major things that you can't afford to do or don't want to do or don't think it'll change anything. But the better shape it's in, the more money you're going to get and the quicker it'll sell. That's curb appeal now when you're presenting your RV.

Now I've walked into RVs for sale on dealerships. Lots and trims falling off the roof. There's antifreeze on the floor, there's sawdust on the sofa. It's like, what are these guys doing?

It's like no presentation whatsoever. They don't even clean it. See, that's not going to work. So you want to like eliminate over odors. Not cover them up, but eliminate them.

Make sure there's no odors. You know, you don't want to have the RV doused in perfume or something to cover the odors. Eliminate them bad boys and stage it like it's a house.

Have everything in its place. Anything that's going with the rv, have it in its place.

You might have a few things in there just to make it look like you're, you know, it's been used but clutter free. And that's okay to have some of your personal effects in there. Just tell them though, hey, you know, the rugs and These cushions are these pillows.

They don't go with the rv. These are my personal things, or these little towels hanging up. And then they know, they understand.

And on the outside, so the inside, make sure it's nice and clean, all that stuff. And then on the outside, make sure that it's washed, waxed, that it's ready to go.

And when you put some dressing on the tires, Armor all or something like that, don't douse them. Just nice and light. Makes the tires look newer than what they are. Little things.

When you douse them in stuff or douse the RV and things trying to cover up bad stuff, it doesn't work. That's a red flag. People catch on to that. And when you list it online, you should have 20 to 30 photos at least. And have good photos.

Get everything in the rv. Every selling point, the room. Stand back and take your time getting these photos.

Some dealer websites, they have 50 or 60 photos to show that RV they have inside, outside, everything someone would want to see before they, when they got there. Be able to see it before they get there. That's going to help sell that rv.

And when you'd sell it or when someone's looking at it, show them that the generator works. Show them that the furnace works. Show them that the refrigerator is working, especially that refrigerator.

I tell people this all the time to talk to the person and not have them turn it on before you get there or wait until you get there and turn on that refrigerator right away. You walk in with them, hey, let's get that refrigerator going.

And by the time you're done walking around talking about the rv, if you're really interested in it, it's going to take a while. That refrigerator will be cooling down.

You'll be able to put your hand in the freezer or in the refrigerator compartment on the fans and see the difference. Bring a thermometer if they don't have one, or just in case they don't have one. Be ready to show the customer, the potential customer.

Everything works. Where it's at, how it does it. This is your baby.

They're going to feel more comfortable when you're walking them through this rather than just standing back, your arms crossed. Yeah, that compartment's here that does that. Now show them.

You know another thing to do, too, if you don't have time to sell it, you can put it on a consignment lot. A consignment lot that's known for selling.

Does a good job selling, whether it's cars or RVs, not one that's just going to let it sit there and let people look at the outside, maybe the inside. But all that fun stuff, someone wants to test drive it, you know, it's a motorhome.

Get their driver's license or at least look at it, see if they have insurance, get a copy of it or take a picture of it. You know, meet in public someplace. Unless you want to meet at your home. But make sure you're doing things safely. Take someone with you.

Go with the person on the ride along or the test drive. Don't let them just drive out of your driveway with your motorhome. Be there with them. Have your cell phone on you. A lot of crazy things happen today.

And when you're negotiating, have a bottom dollar in price. Here's the least amount I'm going to take. And when you get to that point, shake their hand and say, sold.

And if you're having a hard time getting there, throwing some extras, hey, I'll fill up the propane tank for you. I'll give you a 50 bucks fuel credit.

I will throw in this water hose or, you know, I'll take you down the RV store and I'll set you up with a new water hose, a water filter, sewer hose, whatever it might be. Throw in some stuff, make it worthwhile, maybe even have that stuff already on hand.

You know, if you're going to buy another rv, it just goes in another rv. If you don't have to give it away. But if you have to give it away, you have it brand new in the box. Man, people love that. Wow, look at this.

It's brand new in the box. It's like a gift. Like my friends at Mud Flap, they sent me a hat yesterday. It came in a box, a white generic box.

But you open it up, there's confetti in there. All this stuff, you know, it's a hat, but it's cool because it's like a gift.

Well, it is a gift, but it's a fun gift because there's confetti and junk in there. Makes it better. Make the sale exciting. Have some water there. Have something for him to drink. Hey, you want a cup of coffee? You know, do whatever.

Be a good salesman and you will sell that RV and you will sell the top dollar and you will sell it quicker, better prep better offers, right? So keep that in mind. Now we're going to have that full RV. I mean, the full article on the smartrver.com, so you can check that out.

Now let's get into the money Saving tip. I said this as four corner weigh in and then derate your speed. It's kind of do different things, but the same process. This is unique.

And I'm going to have the full article on the website. It's going to be easier to explain there than me going through this, but I'm going to walk through it real quickly here.

This is on an rv, a trailer or motorhome, but it seems to be more on trailers where it's going to help.

Is your RV balanced when you, you know, when you load it down to go on a trip, are you putting a whole bunch of stuff in the right front of it, A whole bunch of stuff in the left front of it, a whole bunch of stuff in the rear, but nothing in the front, nothing in the opposite side. Does the right side of your trailer weigh 300 pounds more than the left side? That's what I mean by the four corner weigh in.

Now you can do this with individual scales if you can find them. If someone has them, you can put them under one under each wheel at a time.

Or you can go to like a cat scale, you know, the semi or the equipment company cat. They have scales where you can do this and you can figure out how balanced your RV is. And there's a process to this.

Like I said, it'll be on the website. If your rv, your trailer is balanced, all four corners weigh approximately the same.

It's going to be optimized for fuel and it's going to not wear out your tire so quickly. It's going to be less wear and tear on the bearings, the axles, the RV itself.

Trailers, you know, they can have their weak links, little weak spots in there if you will.

We have a habit of maybe loading down the right front compartment with our tools, some heavy equipment, you know, things that are heavier that we all shove in there.

We shove a whole bunch of stuff in there and sometimes maybe we push it towards the back or maybe it's a pass through compartment, but it's only halfway. But that right front or left front depends on how we load our RV.

I mean I've seen it in RVs where the, the left front corner is just jam packed with stuff. Tools, camping gear, shovels, I mean different stuff. Toolbox weighs a hundred pounds extra this, extra that. It's all on one side of the rv.

So that left front tire is going to be getting more wear and tear than the rest of the tires. Kind of see what I'm getting at here?

And also it's going to be pulling the front of the RV down, more resistance on those front, the forward tires, and your mileage is going to change for the worse. And then if you're still driving at a higher speed, then it makes it even worse. So it's getting the four corners balanced out.

Now, you might not want to go to a scale or anything, but it might be interesting to see how well balanced your RV is to begin with. You might find that the left rear corner is 100 pounds or 200 pounds heavier than the rest of the other corners.

And so, okay, now when I pack the rv, this is how I want to do it. A little more weight here, a little more weight there. And it's not that you're going to weigh it every time you use it. That'd be insane, right?

But it gives you an idea how to pack, putting in the things that are heavier, the things that are lighter. Sometimes a lot of light things equal one heavy thing, and we don't really think of it that way. It's going to save you money on your fuel.

It's going to save wear and tear on the tires. It's going to save wear and tear on the bait bearings and even the brakes.

Change the dynamics of how the trailer is being towed, how it's going down the road, less road resistance. It's a pretty simple strategy. And also slowing down some, you know, even three or four miles an hour can make the difference.

Now, maybe you're already driving slower, then don't worry about it. But a lot of people, I mean, I see it all the time, People going down the highway 80 miles an hour, pulling a trailer.

You know, if they don't care about their mileage, that's fine. But you're not really getting anyplace that much sooner when you start really penciling out the speed.

You have to go that 80 miles an hour for hours to gain any time. If it's just short bursts, it's not doing anything for you. I think most people been driving for a long time towing RVs.

They get that trailers, fifth wheels. So just something to consider, pretty basic. It's not a complicated thing.

And on the website we'll have more specific information, even some links for some resources for getting a better understanding of weighing it. If you're going to weigh it and how to do it. But cat scales are, you know, they're around, you have to find them, but they are around.

They're not something that isn't there. And that's cat C a T. And if you go to any specialty events like an FMCA Rally, Escapee rallies.

Quite often they have stuff there where you can do this. You know, they offer these services to help you with your rv. So that's something to consider as well.

Or even rv RV Safety and Education foundation can help you with that if you need help with it. So that's the four corner. Weigh in. Everybody weigh that rv. Get it balanced out, all four corners.

And you're saving some cash, which that's what we want to do, save some cash. Right. Okay, now we're coming to staying on the road. So this is an interesting moment.

You've heard Battle Born Batteries is going to be the interviewee, right? So if you've been listening to this show or seen any YouTube video videos I've done about paddleborn batteries. Oh, I have to laugh here.

I've been pretty hard on them guys. I've had an opinion about Battle Born Batteries and even the company, their service, and I have to tell you, it's changed.

This is like, I don't know what you call it. Mia Copa moment. So I've never, like, had total disdain for battleborn Batteries. You know, they're out there. They're the king of the category.

I mean, these guys are strong in the RV industry. They are strong in a lot of different categories within the RV industry and marine and off the grid living.

So I've never, like totally discounted the company. I reached out to them, I had a nice conversation with them before I ever did this interview. I did some research and kind of got back on track.

And you know what? They are a rock solid company today. These guys are good. And what really impresses me is they live, eat and breathe Battle Born Batteries.

These guys aren't just doing a job, making their paycheck and going home. These guys live for the company. And I love that today because there is no such thing as customer service anymore.

And on top of them guys being who they are, they answer their phones and they're going to walk you through problems, help you find a solution.

If you're thinking about adding lithium to your rv, they have tools on their website, but you can call them and ask them questions and they're going to walk you through it, which is amazing today.

You know how many companies that we try to deal with because we have to running a business, you know, an RV business, that they don't answer their phones, it's just email or chats, text messaging. It's horrible. You know, things take days to get done.

If they get done, sometimes it's easier just to eat the Warranty and take care of the customer that is trying to get paid on it or finding the right answer through the company because they don't have the customer support. Battleborn Batteries does. They answer the phones. They're there. They will walk you through it.

If you have a Victron inverter you're having problems with, you call them. They're like the second or third largest distributor in the United States for Victron. They do tons of it and it works with their batteries.

They design that all planned. So, hey, I'm kind of getting ahead here. But, you know, I was anti. Yeah, I guess anti. So I've changed my tune and this has come with research.

A lot of thought, really, looking at the company, looking at their product. And so I'm back on the Battle Born battery bandwagon. Wow, that's a mouthful. I can't believe I said that.

You know, you guys have to make your own decisions. I've made mine, and hopefully you can see that. And if I've swayed you away from Battle Born, maybe it's time to think about it.

If you're looking for lithium, come back to Battle Born. I think they got a great product. And it doesn't say there aren't other batteries out there that are good as well.

I kind of went all in on XP on for a while. I've had my. I've floated around a little bit. We're back to battleborn.

So let's give our attention to Tyler Burns and this battleborn battery interview. And you can see for yourself or hear for yourself about battleborn batteries. All right, so here we have Tyler Burns from battleborn Batteries, and he's gonna. Answer all of our questions today.

Everything we'd ever want to know about a battleborn battery and how it's going to work in your RV and make your life like a dream come true. Welcome to the show, Tyler. How are you today?

Tyler Bourns

I'm great. Thanks for having me, Eric. I'm excited to chat.

Eric Stark

Great is having you here. So we're going to get right into this.

We're not going to spend a lot of time here other than just digging into the questions, because time is important right now. So, Tyler, why would someone want to go to lithium and why do they want to do this? Now a lot of RVers are talking. About switching to lithium. There's a lot of talk about using.

Lithium, almost like you have to go to lithium no matter what you do in your rv.

And I know that's not true the case, but as an RVer, what every day problems are they facing that lithium will actually solve for them over lead acid batteries?

Tyler Bourns

Well, so. So many. Eric and I think it really stems out what we refer to as battery anxiety.

And if you have an rv, you've surely suffered from this and everything kind of falls into it. And that's why lithium is so exciting, because it really does attack so many of those pain points.

So I think it really starts at, you know, everything from the continual maintenance to unexpected dead batteries that you end up swapping out every.

Every year or two, you know, low voltage alarms, running out of power when you need it, or honestly, just not having enough power to do anything without turning your generator on or plugging into shore power really limits the camping experience. And I always put it as like, we go outdoors to enjoy it, to not think about these things.

So if you go to these amazing, beautiful locations and you're just thinking about, is your battery going to make it? Like that just takes away from it. And every single one of those things I listed lithium batteries solve, and they solve really well.

You completely eliminate the maintenance. You've got a battery that's going to last 10 to 15 years, that protects itself, that's going to charge faster, give you more power.

So it's an exciting upgrade.

Eric Stark

Yeah, it sounds like it.

And I think that's what people need to hear, that running out of power when they're out and using their rv, the headaches, the hassles, the dead batteries. So you kind of nailed that one there. Now, is there one big conception that you constantly hear about lithium batteries? And what would the truth be?

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, and I'd probably give you two here. You know, I think one is that lithium isn't safe.

You know, that's a big one, is everybody worries about the F word, you know, when it comes to lithium being fires. And they hear about these electric vehicles being on fire on the side of the road.

And what they have to understand is that not all lithium is the same. That's a. That's a family of a number of different chemistries.

So when you're looking at a battery pack that's going to power your rv, there's options, you know, such as what we offer that are using chemistries that are very, very safe, very stable, and have, you know, important safety protections in place that are never going to cause any issues. So for us, we have over 400,000 packs in the field, many of those used by RVers, and not one has ever been the cause of a fire before.

So we're very conf. In alleviating that pain. But we, we hear that a lot and our, our dealer customers hear that a lot.

The other one that I think comes up a lot, surprisingly, is that lithium doesn't work in the cold. And that's also not true. There are some limitations around cold weather charging.

I know we'll, we'll get more into it later, but as long as you kind of understand your parameters in there, we've done actually full studies to show that you're actually going to get significantly better performance out of your lithium batteries in those freezing cold temperatures than you will with your, your typical AGM flooded lead acids.

Eric Stark

Okay, very good. So two misconceptions handled right there. That's nice. So we don't have to worry about fire, we don't have to worry about cold.

So hot and cold, not an issue. Okay, now for the initial questions people ask. Sometimes it's, you know, how many amp hours do I need?

What do I, you know, what size battery do I need? So you might have a, you know. A guy that's going out for a. Weekend, you might have a guy that's. Going out for a week long trip.

You might have a guy that's, you.

Know, just living in his RV or, you know, spends a lot of time in his RV, wants to be 100% off the grid. So is there a starting point for amp hours on that, like the minimum versus the maximum?

Tyler Bourns

There is, and we have a way to break it out.

I'm smiling because I always laugh because anytime I'm like working a trade show and somebody comes up, that's always the first question is how long will the battery last? And it's like, that's a long answer with a lot of caveats.

And a lot of it is understanding your system and your power usages and your location and all the things.

But we do have a good starting point and I would say we help people with kind of put that puzzle together too, because it's not just your battery bank, it's how you're, you're charging it that really sets you up for success. But you know, at a high level, I would say for like weekenders or lower power users, we definitely recommend starting with around 200amp hours.

If you want to get a little bit more courageous and kind of start testing the waters of maybe going to some sites that are off grid, going to a site that you don't have shore power, maybe you're, you're popping over to a harvest host location for a night or two if you want to power everything. But the AC unit, you know, I'd look to more like a 400amp hour system, probably paired with like a 3,000 watt inverter.

And for those like pure boondockers or even full timers that want to include running air conditioning, which significantly kind of changes your power demands. You know, we'd say anywhere from 540amp hours if you're doing a single AC or up to, you know, 10, 80amp hours using two AC units.

And then of course we always have the people that go crazy. And you'd be amazed at how many batteries they're fitting into their.

Eric Stark

Yeah, I can imagine. I was looking at a website the other day and it's incredible what people are doing out there.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah. And now they get wild.

Eric Stark

They sure do. So how would I know if, you know, I've switched to lithium and now how would I know if my, my, my battery bank is just underpowered?

I'm having problems with it things. Just what's one sign that would give me a clue, I guess, understand.

Tyler Bourns

Well, I think the easiest sign is your batteries die overnight or unexpected. Right?

Like if they're, if they're not making it, if your inverter is tripping, you know, under low voltage, you know, under typical, typical, typical use, those are some pretty, pretty evident signs. Especially when you move to lithium, you've gone to more reliable power, you know, it should be making it and it's still just not going right.

Then that's a good place to start.

Eric Stark

Okay, very good. So little signs like that can be big things and sometimes a big change might have to be made.

Also one of the things too, it seems like a lot of the lithium batteries don't have the same footprint as your typical 24, 27, 31 GC2 type batteries. Your typical deep cycle batteries.

Does Battle Born have a solution for that footprint and matching it or getting something close to make it an easy installation or easier?

Tyler Bourns

No, we do.

And that's actually really how we approached our product portfolio when we entered the RV industry was trying to provide battery sizes that fit into the same footprints that are commonly seen in RVs today. So all except for one of our battery models are based off those common sizes.

So our, our most popular Battery is our 112, which is a group 20 kind of in between a group 27, 31 size. So fits in really nicely. And we do a GC2 battery that fits right into that same slot.

So if you've got GC2s, you know, under your step, that's a, that's a Great fit there as well. And then we have our GC3 battery that's a proprietary form factor for those that aren't looking for just that direct like drop in replacement.

Because you have to remember, with lithium, we make it easy because we want to say, hey, I know I have two group thrones. I can fit two group 31s.

But I always encourage people to kind of think outside of the box when you go to lithium because now all of a sudden you don't need to worry about ventilation and you can mount in any orientation as well. So you have a lot more flexibility with what you can do with your system.

So they usually start there, but as they kind of go down the journey, I find people kind of realize, ooh, I might have some other options with what I could do with this.

Eric Stark

Right. Yeah. You see a lot of lithium and a lot of unique installations. So that's very true. And I like that. Makes it very simple.

Depending on what you're trying to do, someone switches to lithium. You know, they have solar and they already have a converter in their rv.

What do they need to know about their converter and maybe even their charge controller.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah. And that's really is the place to start. Right.

So it's the other question that people always ask me first when I, when I am talking to customers is, you know, I want to change the lithium. Do I have to change anything? And it is that question is that it starts at the converter.

And the reason it does is lithium charges different than your typical agm, you know, flooded lead acid batteries. So with the converter, ideally it's either compatible for lithium or programmable to our recommended settings.

If not, we absolutely recommend that you swap it out because if not, you can give it a charge. Typically it's only going to charge it up to 80%.

The problem with that is you're going to introduce balancing issues into your system and a number other performance issues too. Our batteries like to be charged up to 100%. So you're hurting your longevity that way.

Eric Stark

Okay, so as long as the charge controller and the converter are designed for lithium, it should function well for lithium batteries.

Now, what about somebody who puts lithium batteries, let's say, in their trailer or even a motorhome and they're getting charged while they're driving down the road like deep cycle batteries would do. Now, do they need to switch to something else to make sure those lithium batteries are getting charged while they're driving?

Tyler Bourns

Yes. Yeah. You know, alternator charging is a fantastic method to refill Your battery bank.

But there's a lot of caveats that come through that, so you absolutely need something in between. So at minimum, you know, a DC to DC converter is a really important starting point.

And if you want to size up and you're running off of either a high output alternator or you're doing a second alternator, then we make a device called the wake speed that is a alternator regulator that allows you to get mass amounts of power safely into your battery bank without affecting the performance of your engine.

Eric Stark

Right. So they're not going to be able to charge the battery now if they're fully. So again, will that damage the battery over time?

If it's not getting charged while they're driving down the road, but it's getting charged when they're parked, plugged in, or with the solar going, is the driving gonna change their life or destroy the battery?

Tyler Bourns

No, no, not, not, not at all. There's lots of different ways to get power into the battery.

Whether it's through the alternator, solar, shore power generator, all those things are good. And you can continue to add from, from multiple sources and there's, there's no issues there.

We just want to make sure that on a somewhat regular basis you are getting your batteries up to, up to 100% to ensure that your system stays in, stays in balance.

Eric Stark

Okay, perfect. Because you know, some people are not doing that and. Well, a lot of people probably aren't doing that and you know, it's one more thing.

And sometimes there's a budget involved, they're trying to build a system and they have to do it step by step. But what you say makes sense, especially if that's solar, because that would be charging the batteries constantly anyways.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah. And that's not an every night thing either. Right. Like there isn't technically like a memory effect with lithium.

So it's more just like a performance issue when it comes to being balanced between all the other batteries in the system.

So if you're, you know, if you're having a week and you're not getting a whole lot of sun and you're not getting up to 100, that's not the end of the world. We just want to make sure at some point, you know, you have that happen.

Eric Stark

Right. Because that would happen regardless of, you know, you're out camping off the grid and there's cloudy weather.

Solar is only going to do so much, right?

Tyler Bourns

It's part of it. And that's why the charging puzzle is important.

And having different ways to do it or if, you know you're going to be in a lot of, if you're, you know, more of a Pacific Northwest camper, maybe you go more batteries, less solar. Right. Or if you're always in Arizona or Florida, you're doing more solar, less batteries because you know you're gonna have the sun.

So there's different ways to do it depending on where you go.

Eric Stark

And if it's built right, you can always add to it. It's a modular type system, so you can add either.

Tyler Bourns

That's a great point and especially for somebody on a budget, or is just like, I don't know yet. You can always start small. That's a great way to do it and just see what it's looking like.

Like, you can do it on paper all you want, but until you actually do it and see it, it's just different.

Eric Stark

Right, Very true, very true. Okay. Another question that comes up is, is, or a couple questions about cold weather and storage. Now, the misconception, you know, can you.

Charge when a battery or a lithium. Battery below freezing, can you use it when it's below freezing? What's the, what's the, the spec on that?

Tyler Bourns

Yes. So that's where the big misconception happens. So you can discharge a lithium battery safely all the way down to minus 4 degrees Fahrenheit.

So quite cold. And that, that's the temperature of the cells itself.

So you're getting through the casing wherever you happen to have it, if it's insulated, et cetera. So that's pretty darn cold to get to the temperatures where you can't pull power out of that battery.

So it's really charging is where we're going to have more limitations. If you try to charge any lithium iron phosphate battery under 25 degrees Fahrenheit, you risk damaging that battery.

And so what we do is every battle born battery has an internal battery management system that has a number of protections.

And we were actually the first to come out with something called low temp protection, basically saying if you hit 25 degrees, we're not going to allow you to put a charge into that battery. Now you can still use the battery.

You're not losing usage of your battery, but we want to allow you to put a charge in it in order to protect that battery.

And then we have some integrated heating technology as an option as well if you want to extend to more extreme temperatures that help heat up the battery. If you start to approach, you know, those territories of, you know, where you might not be able to charge that, that handles that for you.

Eric Stark

Okay, very nice. I like that freeze protection. So you can't charge. That's great. That's.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, you know, we try to. I don't want to say dummy proof. I don't want to say dummy proof, but that's how I would if I would be the one using it.

It really is like the battery management system at the end of the day ensures that nothing's going to happen to either the battery or to the user in any, in any situation, whether it's temperature, short circuit, current, anything like that. Like that really is that like worst case scenario, we gotcha.

Eric Stark

That's good. Because people forget they plug in their rv.

They, you know it's going to charge when they're not there and they forget about it, the temperature drops unexpectedly. So that's a great feature. You know, dummy proof, foolproof, whatever you want to call it. Save some headaches, right? For winter storage.

Is there a recipe? You're not going to use your RV all winter long.

Do you just leave your lithiums in there and not forget about or, and just forget about them or do you, should you take them out, put them in a warm place to store them?

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, it depends on where you're at, you know, how extreme of temperatures you're dealing with. But for the majority of users, we want you to disconnect from, from all loads.

So you know, nearly every, every install that we recommend to put a disconnect switch in there so you can just switch it off. If not, you can physically disconnect the batteries. Before you do that, we want you to get it to 100% state of charge.

Once again, that's just where the battery is, healthy as that.

And with lithium, the really nice thing is you don't need a trickle charger or anything like that because it has a significantly, significantly less self discharge rate compared to AGM batteries. You're only losing about 2% capacity each month from the, from the battery.

So you can store it during those cold temperatures and it's not, I mean you can have it in freezing temperatures. That lithium battery can literally freeze and it's not gonna, it's not gonna damage it. So you're totally fine.

Now if you're in, you know, the Arctic or North, north Canada and those really bad ones, then yeah, maybe, maybe bring it in in that case. But like I said, for the majority of the users, charge it to 100%, disconnect it from loads, you're good to go. No trickle charger needed.

Eric Stark

Okay. Yeah.

And some People might just want to take them out just because that's what they do, their routine. So up to the person as well. It's good to know though. One last thing you have to worry about.

Tyler Bourns

It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt either. You know, and in that case I'd still charge it to 100% even if you're taking it it out of there.

Eric Stark

Yeah. Which even a lead acid battery, you know, before freezing temps, if you're going. To leave it in the RV or.

Whatever it is, it should be charged 100% as well. That's going to protect it. I recommend taking lead acids out. Just it's easier. I think. You don't have to think about it because they do have problems.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah.

Eric Stark

Regardless of what the experts say. With lead acid, not lithium.

Tyler Bourns

No. And for sure. And I think no battery, no matter the chemistry likes to be at zero. Right.

Like that's the easiest way to damage a battery is to leave it at at zero.

Eric Stark

And one thing I like that you said there too, it's all lithium. Batteries in these freezing temps will experience these, these difficulties. I guess you might say. It's not just Battle Born. It's everybody.

Tyler Bourns

Okay. Yeah. It's limitations of the chemistry.

Eric Stark

Right. Yeah.

Tyler Bourns

What we do is protect you from it damaging anything long.

Eric Stark

Yeah. Which is nice. We all need as much help as we can get.

Tyler Bourns

We sure do. Me especially now with lithium.

Eric Stark

You know, I kind of describe using a battery. You got the top and you got the bottom. So is lithium, you know, 100% at the top. Can you take it down to 80% or a 20%, 10%, 0% when you're using it.

What's the recommendation there?

Tyler Bourns

Sure. So it depends on the manufacturer. It's anywhere from 80% to 100%.

All battle born batteries have 100% depth of discharge and a lot of that is, well, it's twofold. One is we oversize our batteries.

So when you're buying 100amp hour battery that could be anywhere from like 106 to 112amp hours that we're actually putting into there.

And the battery management system once again comes in and ensures if it's, you know, when you're, you know, right before 100%, it will protect the battery from anything. So yeah, with, with battle born, 100% compared to, you know, 50% with, with lead acid.

Eric Stark

Okay. So that's a big difference. You don't have to worry about.

Tyler Bourns

It's a mind shift change. Right. Go ahead.

Eric Stark

That's all right.

So actually when the The BMS kicks in, the battery still going to have, let's say 6amp hours, 10amp hours left in it and that's the percentage that's what protects it from going to the bottom, right?

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, you're actually using a little bit of that as well. But yeah, it'll cut it off at like 99% of what its actual capacity is.

Eric Stark

Okay, so it leaves enough in there so it can think and manage itself and get recharged.

Tyler Bourns

Yes. Now the battery up to 100.

Eric Stark

Now the battery management system or the BMS, what does Battle Born do with their BMS versus? I mean there's a lot of lithium batteries out there, so we're not going to cover them all. But just in a general way, how is the BMS with Battle Born?

Better than the competition.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, we're really proud of our battery management system.

You know, a lot of battery companies will just use an off the shelf that fits their specs and we've always designed ours specifically for every battery model ourselves and with our decade plus of know how building batteries. So like I said before, we were the first to have low temp charge protection, but we have a number of other protections in there.

And when it comes to our larger batteries, when you start to hit that, that 300amp hour range, so you know, over my shoulder, those 270amp hour GC3 batteries, look at the ratings of that compared to other options on the market and you'll start to understand, you know, what you're paying the, you know, the premium price for is for not just not just a premium product, but the higher current ratings on it, the superior protections within it. So it's very much a kind of hidden under the hood thing, but something we're really proud of.

Because if you think inside a battery, that's circuitry, right? A battery management system's a little computer that's always going to be the first thing to fail in any product.

So that's a really vital device to success, right?

Eric Stark

Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah. So you guys have worked very hard on that.

I think that's the technology that probably really matters to some degree much more than the lithium itself. Because I think that technology is there, it's proven, it's accessible, but that BMS is right on top.

Tyler Bourns

There it is. And it's another fail safe. Right? Like, and we have a lot of fail safes within, within that battery pack.

Like it might look really simple on the surface, like if you open one up. But like what that's actually doing behind the scenes is much more extensive than people realize and it's only going to get better.

You know, there's exciting innovations coming in that direction.

And I mean our new Dragonfly intelligence communication technology, you know, embraces some of that in terms of, you know, full system and individual battery monitoring and that kind of thing. So that's a, that's an interesting aspect.

Eric Stark

Okay, very good. So that's cool. That's good to know because that's a weak link and probably makes a lot of the lithium batteries lower priced as well.

And they got a low quality BMS that one size fits all that. They're just buying off the shelf someplace in a foreign land. Yeah. So when it comes to switching from lead acid to lithium, is there generally.

Let's just a basic system, right? Let's say 200amp hours, 200 watt solar panel, typical converter. Let's say it's already lithium ready.

Is there a big deal that a process for rewiring or can you just go with the existing battery cables? What's the simple answer to that?

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, I mean you kind of mentioned it.

You know, we start with charging, you know, ensuring that you're, you're set up in a way that's going to allow you to charge that lithium battery ring to the profile that it is. When you need to start thinking about like rewiring or things like that is if you're going to significantly change the size of your system.

So if you're starting to, you know, upgrade to a much larger battery bank or you're upsizing your inverter, maybe you're moving to an inverter charger versus just the inverter and converter setup. Adding alternator charging, those are the kind of things where you're going to start to get into more, you know, extensive of looking installs.

Eric Stark

Very good.

So even for that guy who's just starting out, he's going to build a system, he can start out very simple in that fashion, then just expand as he goes. Because you can always add new cables and wiring, right?

Tyler Bourns

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And we have a lot of people that dip their toes into that water, the water that way they have say they have 200amp hour batteries, they swap those first and they're kind of like okay, cool. It's people and it's good for business. But people tend to get addicted to power that they can't get enough.

Once they realize what they can do with it, it's like oh, okay, and we're power hungry now. Right. Like just as, as people Everything from Internet to the middle of nowhere to. We don't want just a basic coffee machine.

We're putting full espresso machines in. You know, we're running even instant pots. You know, when I first started getting into this, you'd see like the little ones.

And now I'm seeing people, they just bring their full size residential ones. So once you get a taste of it, I find people realize, oh, you can never have enough. It's more what can you fit?

Eric Stark

Yeah, you're right there. Yeah. Just charging everything, keeping everything going anymore is crazy. You have to have power. You can't live without it nowadays.

Tyler Bourns

I mean, not if you want your modern luxuries on the road, which I think everybody does now.

Eric Stark

Yeah, oh yeah. Like even 10 campers. Yeah, it's pretty fast.

Tyler Bourns

Yes, yes.

Eric Stark

For a guy who wants to just maybe run his microwave or a coffee maker, you know, he's going to have a seven minute meal, he's going to make and run his coffee pot in the morning. What kind of battery slash inverter combination would he need to just do that functionality? A basic system there?

Tyler Bourns

Sure, yeah.

Eric Stark

Okay. Yeah.

So that's running those things and because you'll actually run it longer than what you say you're gonna do, especially once it starts working on that. You know, this is cool. I'm gonna make two meals today and two pots of coffee. So a little extra battery's not gonna hurt.

Tyler Bourns

It is. And the mic, the microwave's interesting because you're not running it for long.

Like it's a high power draw, but it's not on for long periods of, of time. So I always encourage people to do the math for that kind of one. It's hard to kind of answer off the cuff.

So like on our website we have a battery calculator where you can put in your devices and say, I run that 20 minutes a day and I run that piece that. And it can kind of do those calculations for you.

Eric Stark

Yeah, so that helps. Cause a lot of people don't know and doing the research on what they have sometimes seems like it's a real hassle.

But you have to do it otherwise you're always going to be underpowered or always have problems. Now another thing, CPAP machines, a lot of our veers have CPAP machines.

So are we talking the same kind of configuration we just talked about for a microwave and a coffee maker or would it be less? More?

Tyler Bourns

It's less. And I think that's a nice thing that people really like when it comes to lithium is CPAP's one of those critical devices, right?

Like one of those ones that you do not to lose, you do not want to lose power, you know, overnight when you're, you're running, you know, depending on how, you know, serious it is, is for you. So CPAPs come up a lot for us and they're, they're very, very common. They're not huge draws but they're, but they're running, you know.

So typically like 100amp hour battery can power a CPAP for multiple nights without anything else running. And then a lot of those also run directly on 12 volts. So you can also always wire directly for more efficiency as well.

So I would say it's probably less but once again they're always going to differ.

So I always recommend, you know, actually looking at the specs of your model and either doing the math or calling us and having us walk that, that through you.

Eric Stark

Right? Yeah, that's great because yeah, there is a difference on those. Yeah. So that's good to know.

And then your website has that, those tools to make it easier to figure out what you need as well. I like that.

And that's very helpful because it does take some of the pain out of it. So that's pretty cool. So what's cheaper to own lithium or lead acid batteries?

Tyler Bourns

Well I'm glad you asked Eric. Yeah. You know, everybody knows lithium is expensive, right? Like you are out there are a ton of benefits. We've talked a lot about them today.

You're saving weight, you're charging faster, you're getting rid of all those, those battery headaches. So you get a lot of benefits from it but you are going to pay more for it.

But what we found that a lot of people don't realize is when you look at the total cost of ownership and the total cost of ownership is actually less over the lifetime of your lithium battery. Plus you get all those, those benefits with it too.

And we've done, we've done the studies on it, we've had some of our content creators we worked with have done studies on it. Morden's on if anybody follows them, did A great one a couple, couple years ago to really kind of break this down.

But when you're comparing a battery that's going to give you 10 to 15 years compared to two to three years, you take into account all those replacements and that's where your total cost of ownership is, is going down.

And then I always remind people too, don't forget what you're paying for fuel for that generator, you know, as, as well, or what you're paying for camping sites or the premium for that, that shore power spot as well. All those other things add up as well that you might making into your calculations.

But even without that, you're getting a lot more for your money just from a general, you know, usage benefit standpoint.

Eric Stark

Yeah, more, more bang for your buck, that's for sure.

Tyler Bourns

Yeah. And think about usable capacity, right?

So if you're looking at a lead acid battery, say 100amp hours, because you only have 50% depth of discharge, that's now a 50amp hour battery. So one of our batteries is actually two of those.

So you can also just take off half the battery from the, half the battery cost from the top too since you're getting double the capacity. So we always look at it in terms of usable capacity, not just capacity to capacity.

Eric Stark

Right, Very good. Yeah, that makes absolute sense. It's more painful up front, but the long term, then you're done with it for a long time, which is nice.

And you just got a nice reliable.

Tyler Bourns

System once, cry once.

Eric Stark

And that's if you buy a good quality lithium battery. People, it's not a low quality one. Right. A battle born.

Tyler Bourns

Okay, thanks for saying that, Eric.

Eric Stark

So we're going to come to the last question here. Plain English, no lawyer talk. What's the warranty on a battle born battery?

Tyler Bourns

Yes, no, happy to talk about it. Because that's something. We were the first in the industry to come out with a 10 year warranty.

And I always encourage people, no matter who you're buying from, read the actual warranty language. Right? So for us that's an eight year full manufacturer's warranty and that's two years prorated, right?

So we basically cover the cost of a, a portion of the cost of a, of a replacement. Since we did that, we've had people do 11 years, 12 years lifetime.

But if you read those oftentimes, those are actually only two to three year warranties or don't, or don't cover much. So definitely, definitely read what the actual warranty is and understand that it's a manufacturer's warranty too. Right.

So I think when people look at it like if you're going to do something that you're damaging the battery because you're using it outside of the recommended guidelines that might not be covered under warranty.

So we have all that language and we're happy to talk through it with you, but I think just transparency is really, really important for people to understand. Just so they, you know, everybody's on the same page and. Right. Expectations that, like, we've got you, but you got to have us too.

Eric Stark

Right, Exactly.

And, you know, it's funny, I did an episode, I talked about lithium battery warranties and how important it is to read them because that's where all the details are at. And Battle Born actually came out on top on that for length and everything. Good. During the time.

Because when you start reading it, that warranty is not anything like they're going to tell you when you're buying the battery. In most cases, you know, oh, yeah, don't worry about it. We'll just send you a new battery. Don't worry about it. You know, we'll take care of this.

And then when you read the warranty, oh, no, they're not going to do any of that, you know, so you guys were on top on that one. So. Great answer.

Tyler Bourns

Look, I mean, I mean, it's part, it's part of what comes with the benefit of working with an American company. Right. I think is that transparency and authenticity with it is. We want to set you up for success.

Like, really our, our end goal is for the customer to be happy. And that, that starts with not being misleading and setting proper expectations. Right.

Like, this is an awesome upgrade, but you just have to, you just have to know what it's going to do and all the different, different pieces to it.

Eric Stark

Yeah, yeah. And some people might need to make a little cheat sheet to make sure they're following that warranty for the life of the battery.

Other people just install it a certain way and that's going to be it. And some people just flat won't care if it lasts, it lasts. If it doesn't, it doesn't. You know, you got all different flavors. Yeah.

Well, Tyler, I really appreciate the time you've given us today. Your.

Your answers were spot on and, and you know, Battle Born is the king of the category and you guys are doing a great job and it's just been great talking to you and I. Hopefully these, these answers to the questions will help our listeners. And by the way, they can call you guys with any questions. They have, right?

Tyler Bourns

We really, really encourage it. You know, that's one of the big value adds of working with battleborn is that we've got a dedicated sales team.

And I don't like the word sales, because they're really helping you design your system, size it appropriately, let you know if there's anything you're missing that might not set you up for success.

And we have a dedicated support team that once you do have a battery, if something's not working right, if your programming settings are wrong, we do the entire system and we've done it for a really, really long time. And I always like to point out most of our sales guys and gals have been with the company for. For over six years, if not, if not more.

So they understand these deeply. And even in the early days, they'd often even jump on the lines and help build these batteries. So they know them literally inside and out.

So, yeah, we highly encourage you to call us if you need anything.

Eric Stark

All right. I push that. Customer service, they answer their phones. I've called them, I've tested it. It works.

So, you know, consider Battle Born if you're going to upgrade, because that customer service is invaluable and it is going away today. So it's great you guys are still doing that. All right, Tyler, so we're going to bring it in here. Again, thank you so much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it.

Tyler Bourns

It. Thanks for having me, Eric. Very, very happy to be here.

Eric Stark

That was a great interview. So, as I said earlier, you know, I'm back on that Battle Born battery bandwagon.

We love the product, love the company, change of heart, but we're going to move forward. We're just going to flat out move forward and go on. So if you're looking for lithium, Battle Born is the company to check out.

If you're looking to upgrade inverters, put in new inverters. They can help you with that, they can direct you.

Then the stores that they work with can sell you the product, and you have a good warranty, a warranty you can count on and get taken care of. So that's enough of that. Let's go to the next stop and let's talk about hot springs and steam and the trail from Idaho, Montana to New Mexico.

Now, this is a little bit of a trail that you might not want to follow, depending on what your timing is. Cover some ground, some territory. But if you have the time to do it, it might be worthwhile going.

There's some hot tub, steam type kick For a couple weeks. Weeks, A week, whatever you want to do. A couple weeks to make it nicer. So this is wintertime stuff.

I've talked about the places to go and we're just adding on to some unique things that maybe we don't think about. So now we're going to chase those steam plumes instead of sunsets.

We're going to roll the RV into winter prep and we're going to grab a towel, we're going to step into some mineral hot springs and just relax, let our hair down and enjoy it. By maybe there's some snow on the ground around us, on the rocks, the trees, the scenery really adds to it, brings it to life.

Quite a different thing. So let's start off with Stanley, Idaho. So Stanley, Idaho's got a very cool vibe. It's got these rustic river pools.

You have the Sawtooth mountains there. And if you've ever seen the Sawtooth mountains, man, they are something to see. That name fits them very well.

Got this unique mixture of roadside activity. It's kind of primitive. They have day use springs. But it's a very cool area. Nice place. Stanley school in itself.

So you just find yourself a base camp and that's where you set up your RV or your car Ever how you're doing this pickup truck. There's pull outs that you can use alongside the road.

And if you're driving a motorhome you might or even towing a trailer, you might want to drop the motorhome, the trailer and scout it out in your tow vehicle or towed vehicle. It's good to arrive during the weekday. It's a little bit less crowded or after dinner. The crowds seem to thin at those times.

And when you're gonna jump in that pool, make sure you put your foot in first. Test that water or your hand. Don't just dive right in or sit down. It might be a shock to you that maybe the hot water is too hot.

Maybe not what you really want or it's gonna take some getting used to it. Sit low in that water, keep your body submerged, keep it warm because it's gonna be cold outside. And that's what makes it pretty cool.

Now depending on where you're at, there's a little etiquette here. You know, share the tub, share the spring. Keep your voices low and pack out everything you brought in. So that's Stanley.

Now let's go to Lava Hot Springs, Idaho. Here's another one. And these places are really cool. Stanley checks the box. So let's check out Lava Hot Springs. It's a classic soak village.

That's the vibe you're gonna have. It's all about pools, food, resting, enjoying that, letting the hair down while you're munching on something in some water.

Well, maybe not in the water, but before you get in the water afterwards. So the wintertime is cool because the water is very predictable. It's going to be at a nice temperature.

You can have long soaks, and it's an easy place to find. And actually, when you're there, it's easy to pick a pool. It's right there. You can't miss it. It's so good.

There's all these different pools and things. It's a place to go. If you're gonna soak, you might want to. You know, you're thinking of a long soak.

Two short soaks might be better because that will equal one long soak. And you know, you can get dehydrated while you're soaking. So you want to. To drink some water, have something to munch on in between soaks.

Don't overdo it. Stay hydrated. Because you know when you become dehydrated, that can sneak up on you sometimes and it's not good. It's hard to catch up with it.

It's much better to stay ahead of it. Doesn't that make sense? So you can book these things early as well. There's nearby RV parks where you can get your reservations.

Midweek sometimes is less expensive. Definitely less crowded. Weekends are going to be much more crowded. Even in the wintertime, these things can happen. So be careful. Plan ahead.

Now, here we're going from Rusty river, river tubs to a small town built for soaking. So let's go to Montana now. Paradise Montana. So this is Quinn's on the Clark Fork. This is near, I guess, west of Missoula. Very cool place.

It's a river canyon. It's a very polished facility. And they have multiple temperature options. It's not like everything's just going to be 100 degrees or 102 degrees.

You have choices there. You can even take a cold plunge if you want to. You can feel the difference between the Nordic frost or the Montana heat in the wintertime.

You can, you can compare, right? How fun is that? So you got pools that are 100 to 104 degrees where you can start out. So that's pretty nice.

And you can even take a soak with the snow falling on you. That doesn't that make it very cinematic, very adventurous? It's like, wow, you know That's a camera moment. So make sure you bring a camera.

Make sure it's waterproof or heat proof or both. Right. In case you drop it in there. Now, again, it's during the daytime, different times, it's going to be better, less crowded. So think about that.

Might even be a little bit cheaper. Less people can make it better. So now that you've melted your muscles, let's finish with a retro cool spa in a different area.

We're going to go down south now to Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. So this is an interesting area as well. Now in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, they have vintage bath houses along the Rio Grande.

They're private, public, so you have choices. It's a pretty mellow area. It's low key. It's not a uptight little city. It's a nice place. Go shopping on the streets, coffee shops.

So you can do a lot more there than just enjoy the soaking, if you will. Now, there's different bath houses. And these bath houses, they're not like the old west or anything. They're not not whorehouses.

They're just bath houses. Okay, so let's get that straight. So it's a family thing. You don't have to go in there with glasses on and a hat and a fake nose and a mustache.

So they have pools from 100 degrees. 100. Or bath houses from 100 degrees to 108 degrees all year long. So you can take your RV there, they have RV parks or you can stay in a motel.

Locally, you can do it ever how you want to do it. You can stay someplace else and go there there as a day trip. Now here's a little fun fact. The town renamed itself after a radio show promotion.

So that's a little bit trivia and I'm going to leave it there. You're going to have to do a little research on that. How did Truth or Consequences come to that name?

After a radio show doing these hot tubs or these steam baths, they recommend you wear a silica friendly bathing suit or clothes because the water has stuff in there that can damage it. That silica friendly stuff eliminates that or eliminates a lot of it. And then rinse everything after you take a soak, get all that water out of it.

Sometimes flip flops are what you want to wear or water type shoes. And keep in mind if you're doing this in the wintertime, everything around you can be icy. So walking to and from might be a little more tricky.

So make sure you have shoes that you can walk on the ice with or the snow and then take them off and get in the tub. You don't really take your tub, your shoes into the tub, right?

You go in there clean, take those hydration breaks as well and stick your hand in your foot first. Don't just jump right in. You might be in for a big surprise. And respect the area. Don't bring your glass in there and break things.

Pack out all the trash you bring in and even pick up some trash if you see something somebody else left behind. And so in the article, it's going to have the better times to go, the less crowded times for all four places we talked about.

So you can check that on the website. So that's a pretty cool deal. Something different to do in the wintertime. Unless you're already doing it, then it's the same old routine, right?

We don't want the same old routine. So you would already know other places to go and check out. Or maybe you haven't been here. But find things to do in the wintertime.

Don't just pack away that RV or just give it up. Traveling is cool sometimes even without the rv. Hate to say it, man, we want you to use the rv.

But if it's packing up the family, jumping in the car, going away for the weekend or a week, or doing a trek like this, you can enjoy it. Staying in motels is okay too, or hotels, whatever is available. A lot of these places are in motel territory, not hotel territory, which is okay.

All right, so the full article is going to be on the website, the smartrver.com now this is normally where we'd get into RV Envy, but we had that Battleborn battery interview. So it's chewed up that time. So to save some time, we're not going to do that today.

So that's actually going to bring us to the the end of the podcast. And so I want to remind everybody to share the podcast, subscribe to it. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Share the YouTube channel.

And if you start watching a video, just let it run, let it play. If you're like, oh, this guy's just as boring as all get out, this is stupid. I already know it. Just let it run.

Anyways, it helps the YouTube algorithm so other people can find it. Yeah, I do that even on videos that aren't.

Well, I don't watch my videos like that because YouTube, they know that it's me watching it, so it doesn't count for anything. But other videos, I let them play at least for a while. More than longer sometimes than I want to just so those people that video can be found.

Just because I don't appreciate the video doesn't mean somebody else won't. Or will won't. Well, yeah, whatever. Share the podcast, share our YouTube channel.

And hey, if you got something to say, you can contact us, especially on YouTube. You can use the contact deal there, make a comment. But I don't always catch all though.

So if you just contact us directly, it's going to be a quicker conversation as well. Especially if you're asking a question. I respond much quicker because I don't always see the YouTube stuff. I don't get emails.

It's set up where I'm supposed to, but I don't see them sidetracked there. But hey everybody, it's been totally awesome. You guys are listening to the show. We definitely appreciate it.

We love everybody who watches this, who listens to the podcast, watches our YouTube channel, and we hope you truly enjoy your RV lifestyle. So this is Eric Stark with the Smart RVer podcast, your go to guide for smarter RVing and unforgettable adventures on the open roads.

So thanks again for stopping by and listening today. We'll see you next time.